Into the Unknown: Listen to the Filmmakers - Episode 2

Listen in on the filmmakers associated with the new Documentary, Into the Unknown, The Paramedics' Journey.  Podcast Host and producer on the documentary, Tonya Mantooth interviews Executive Producer Randy Mantooth, star of the legendary TV Show EMERGENCY along with producers Steve Martin, Assistant Fire Chief LA County (ret) and Dr. Baxter Larmon, Professor Emeritus of Emergency Medicine at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA.  The group discusses why it was so important to tell the story of what paramedics face today.  The producers share serious and humorous stories while filming Into the Unknown documentary. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

We are interrupting a facility with a 24-year-old male dealt from the rope of a two-story building. 65-year-old male complaining of chest pain.

SPEAKER_03 0:09

22-year-old male, multiple GSWs to the abdomen. He's struggling the drain. I'm Tanya Mantuth, and welcome to the Into the Unknown Podcast. All right, welcome to the Into the Unknown Podcast. I'm joined here today with Randy Mantuth, star of emergency and executive producer of the documentary Into the Unknown. Into the Unknown is our documentary, currently in production, that highlights what paramedics are facing and dealing with today. I'm Tonya Mantuth. While I'm the CEO of the San Diego International Film Festival, I'm here today as the producer of Into the Unknown. And with me today are my producer partners, Steve Martin, Assistant Fire Chief, LA County Retired, and Dr. Baxter Lorman, Professor of Emergency Medicine of the David Geffen School of Music. Music? Medicine.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

You don't play an engineer. Not for a while have I played an instrument. Okay, in fact, I really can't play an instrument. So that's why you went into medicine.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

You started in music and you're like, that's not gonna work for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

With my flip. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Okay, so school of medicine.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

I thought you played the oboe. No? That's the worst. Right up there with the accordion. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Okay, School of Medicine at UCLA. And we've come together in Santa Barbara. We're here for the annual fiesta. We always spend the holidays together. La fiesta! And here's how we're gonna work. So anyway, welcome everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Welcome. Thank you for being here. And the uh tuba is my favorite instrument.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

So obviously we're here. We've been working on Into the Unknown probably since what, 2019? That's when we started this project. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

And it's really incredible. But why was it important for you, Randy, to tell this story? And I know that's a passion for you and Kevin. So talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Well, you know, for for for well over 20 years, 30 years almost now, I've always had this this desire and this this goal of making a um a documentary about paramedics uh and what they go through. And a lot of a lot of people don't don't know what a paramedic does. They they think they're ambulance drivers or they think they're just TMTs, and they don't really understand what a paramedic is. And my whole goal was ostensibly was just to be able to tell the public uh or show the public in some way what the real fuel paramedic uh does in the field. I didn't want it to be about emergency, I did not want it to be about me or Kevin. Uh just wanted to uh tell the public exactly what it is uh that that we want to that we not just want it to survive, we want it to thrive in our EMS system.

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Well, and I know we talked about this before, but when emergency started, there were actually very few, only a handful of paramedics actually in the country. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

There were 13. If if I've got if I've got that number correct, and I'd look over at Bax and Steve to find out. But at that time when we first started in 1971, or or we actually started shooting in 72, but in 71 there were 13 paramedics in all of uh all of California, and they were all in LA County. Do I have that correct, Steve?

SPEAKER_02 3:26

I think there were about six cities in the United States that had paramedics. And and then that and and Los Angeles had a group, was the first really in the state of California, but we had uh Seattle, we had Miami, we had Columbus, Ohio, and and those uh Pittsburgh was another one of those early, early areas. But yeah, very few of the country was actually had paramedics in 1972 when you started. Yeah, not widely known.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

In fact, when I when I first uh was told that I'd be playing LA County firefighter paramedic Johnny Cage, my first question was, what the hell is a paramedic? I didn't know what it was and never heard of it before, and uh, but I quickly found out. Um and it has just revolutionized um emergency medicine as we all know it today. It totally revolutionized it, re revolutionized it, and uh to this day uh it has now bloomed not just statewide or countrywide, it has bloomed worldwide.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Well, let's talk a little bit about how did it actually come about? Like why why did they think that this was an issue that needed to be able to unfold and who brought that to the forefront to even get those handful of cities to take this on? Like, where did it spawn?

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Well, it really star started in in Belfast, Ireland, uh, by a doctor by the name of Dr. Frank Pantridge. And he uh wrote a paper and some of the and then came to present the paper in the United States. A group of physicians that were really not emergency medicine hadn't really even been developed then. It was really a group of cardiologists, and then Gene Nagel, who was an anesthetist in in Florida, that came and listened to him talk, and he was talking about in Belfast how being able to do advanced life support procedures, some of the procedures that were done in hospitals, could be done in the field. The difference that they did in Belfast is that they had so many physicians that their ambulances were manned by physicians. Um we didn't have that amount of physicians uh in the United States. So these physicians were looking at another model that they could be able to use that could be geographically present around the country. And firefighters were what they all came up with, was their plan to be able to start some of the first. And it wasn't only fire departments, there were also ambulance companies and private volunteer services around the country as well that were strategically located. So that was the plan that these group of physicians that were in these major cities, it was in Los Angeles, it was uh Dr. Criley and Dr. Graff, and then up in Seattle it was uh Leonard Cobb, and it was Gene Nagel in uh down in Florida, and you had Dr. Saffer that was in Pittsburgh, that all kind of started uh this this revolution um that was even before the show Emergency uh had happened. Ron Stewart.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

And so was it collective? Like they they said, okay, what cities are gonna take this on, or was everybody kind of independent and decided to do it?

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah, again, it wasn't that was widely embraced from the get-go. So it was always a um private industry versus the fire base, like you said. And that's where by the time it came to the time for Randy talks about in 1971, and LA County um uh took that on with our then uh supervisor, but um that that it was it was like a kind of a show and tell. Some departments had medical doctors attached to them, and so they brought it in and said this is a thing that we think could work and should work, but not everybody was receptive of that.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

No, it became very political at that point.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Yeah, that and there's a lot of reasons behind the scenes of things like that that happen with that, because there's monies involved, obviously, when you're paying you know private companies and whether Firebase can do it, you're already paying your firefighters, right? Right. They're already in the station, they're already in the city, like Baxter says. So you have this built-in workforce that is strategically located. Why why would it work for there? Because before then, a lot of these ambulance companies, weren't they using the mortuary uh, you know, setups and and using the uh the mortuary vehicles to take people to the hospital, and then they were just basically just dumping off, you know, people at the hospital no matter what their condition was.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

And the argument that that was constant, and I mean constant, uh were coming from doctors who didn't really trust the system that was being developed, nurses who didn't really trust the system. And uh so that argument, their their argument was, wait a minute, you're gonna have firefighters starting IVs, and and uh and so that was kind of frowned upon. So so there was a bit of a, you know, uh not a clash, but there was differing ideas of who could be a paramedic. Tension, right? Who could be a paramedic? And then once the firefighters got out there, they went, well, wait a minute. These guys are totally trainable, are totally trainable, and uh um uh they're adaptable uh uh and they're motivated. That's what they really locked into was the motivation of what makes a paramedic. Because a lot of people are firefighters, they don't want to be paramedics, but a lot of paramedics they're they're born to be paramedics, that's who they are.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Well, and and let's talk about that. So, how did that transition from it? Was it Senator?

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Robert Senator.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

Robert Senator, was he the one who felt like this was a story to be told? Like how did that story evolve? And how, because I know Jack Webb obviously was the executive producer, but who thought this story was important?

SPEAKER_00 8:51

It was you nailed it right on the head, Tanya. It was Bob Senator who went down. He was looking, Jack sent Bob Senator down to the hospital, said. Now Bob was Bob was the executive producer and creator of the show. Got it. And and Jack Webb was the owner of the show. And so Jack said he only saw a few more years, if ever, uh, or if that long, uh, for Adam 12. He didn't want to be caught without a show. So he said, I want to do a hospital show. So go down to the hospital and down to Harbor General, which turned out to be Rampart, and said, See what you can come up with. Well, Bob got into the ER room, and that's where all the action was, and he saw these firefighters coming in with all these victims. And at that time they were firemen. Uh, but he saw these firemen coming in with with victims and and and patients, and he said, Well, what's that? And they said, It's our new program, it's a paramedic program. And Bob said, That's our show, and that's how they came about.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

I think what a lot of people don't realize is the evolution of paramedics was almost the same time as the evolution of emergency medicine. In in emergency departments were not were not manned by emergency specialists. They were, you know, people that were primary care physicians, they would have been uh pediatricians at the ER? In the emergency department. So the the evolution uh of the early 70s of of paramedics was also the evolution of emergency medicine. So it was at the same time? Yeah, so when so when Bob Senator was going to Harbor General, he was seeing the evolution of emergency departments with emergency specialists. At the same time, he was seeing who are these people that are firefighters that are coming in that are paramedics.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

So he was kind of a visionary.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

He was.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

He was. And nobody gives him credit for it.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

Was that a big chance that he took?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Yeah, because if it didn't succeed, he's out of there. You know.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Well, and if it didn't succeed, do you think that the industry would be what it is today?

SPEAKER_01 10:48

I don't personally. There's a good chance it was the flagship for it wouldn't look like it is today. But the one question that you asked about the firefighters as the show really uh exposed everyone to was it's one thing to have somebody in their home and and perhaps have a heart attack or have an accident somewhere. But a lot of people have to be rescued at their scene of whatever accident may have happened. So just sending someone out there to pick somebody up, you know, didn't work anymore. That's why it worked out, which is what made the show so popular. That Johnny and Roy could get out there, they could get on the scene of the chemical plant that's on fire and they're trapped up here. And now the fire department can use all their tools, all their equipment, their toys to get to the person, and then the paramedics can get there and administer aid. Because at the beginning, even on there was one thing we didn't talk about, there was pushback from the folks in the fire department. They, a lot of them, didn't want anything to do with these paramedics in the fire station. They used to call them nurses, they were kept separate. I mean, there was a lot of issues in the early days bringing these uh uh paramedics in. Because they didn't have to be EMTs back in the day either. So they didn't really do a lot of medical work.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

So was that before the show or was that even during the show?

SPEAKER_01 11:57

That was before enduring. Well, because that's the time it evolved.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Because it was evolving. Right. So the the academic in me is going to tell you because I love about numbers, and I've I I've talked to Randy about this before, and and that was in 1972. We already said there were like 12 cities in the nation that were that had advanced life support paramedics at the time. But by the by the run of the show, 1979, Randy, is when about 1979, about 85% of the country was covered by paramedics. Was now covered by paramedics. So yeah. People like like my mentor and Randy, he was he actually worked on this show.

SPEAKER_03 12:32

Talk about that span. I mean, like that short period of time to basically start and evolve an industry.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Yeah, I I think that tells you the power, that tells you the power of emergency uh of television. Television. And and we have some friends that at that time. At that time. It was and and it's and it's been shown before. The show uh uh ER, the show ER changed in in emergency medicine, the amount of people that were in medical school that actually wanted to become emergency physicians. Right after the second year, everybody wanted to be a George Clooney or something in and become an emergency physician.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Kind of like CSI?

SPEAKER_02 13:08

Yeah, exactly. The the amount of people that went into uh EMS because of the television show Emergency and uh and went into emergency medicine. Um, and we also this doesn't count for all the people that were paramedics that then went on to become physicians. That's a whole evolution of a lot of group of people, too, that that they go from uh being an EMT to being uh uh to being a paramedic that then go on to be an emergency physician. So that's amazing. So obviously you, for example, because you were you started with with the city. I started out in a private ambulance working on an ambulance.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Worked through a lifeguard, and you started off as a lifeguard, yeah.

unknown 13:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

So and and then you became a firefighter, then you became a paramedic, then you became a doctor, and then you became this incredible crudge mudgeon uh uh that we all know and love.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

And we have to call him Dr. Baxter Lorman. Like we can't even call him by himself because it's just like Dr. Lorman. Sorry, Dr. Dinner's ready. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Thank you, Queen.

SPEAKER_03 14:11

This Into the Unknown podcast is brought to you by the Public Safety Group, a Jones and Bartlett learning brand. The Public Safety Group has become the world's most innovative and trusted source for educational materials and certification solutions for emergency medical services, fire and rescue. To learn more, go to psglearning.com. Okay, so let's circle back. So I know this is important for you and Kevin to tell this story. So, okay, talk about the point in which you said, okay, I want to put a team together, why was it important, and then how did we all get roped into this?

SPEAKER_00 14:50

My goal was always, uh, and and there's sometimes that I kind of had to pull myself back. But my goal was to put together the best team I knew how to. The best team I knew how to. And uh uh and so my first thought went to you, Tanya. Uh, not just because you're my sister, but because I have so much respect for what you've done. You you're not just the president and CEO of an international film festival in San Diego. You produced other things that I watched. And I went, that's my sister? That's my little sister. And I was like really impressed with with your work. And uh so I said, you know, I can't think of anybody else that and you you and I talk at shorthand, we you know, we've known one another all our lives, and so all my life, yeah. Yeah, well, close to mine too. And I'm not that much older. Well, yeah, I guess, but but anyway, I I uh uh and then once I had you on board, I said, there's two people that should be involved in this, and that would be Steve Martin and and Baxter Lorman. We asked them, and both of them were very reluctant, because the amount of work you're I know that sooner or later you're gonna say what surprised you most about the film, the amount of work that it took to do.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Actually, I think when Steve and Bax said yes, they were saying yes to being technical advisors. Yeah, which pretty much was like aka you got to sit on set and uh have have donuts and coffee. Call us when you need us, okay? Exactly. We'll be on the side.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Well, we're ready anytime you want.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

But but what was it about the two of them and their backgrounds that you felt was important? Because, first of all, you the three of you have been friends for decades.

SPEAKER_04 16:35

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

For decades. Right. You've known each other a long, long time. So what was it about each of them that you felt was so critical to being involved in the film?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Well, when it comes to fire, I don't know anybody more knowledgeable and articulate in his explanation of certain things in fire. And when it comes to uh paramedics and when it comes to the medicine side, again, I don't know anybody that is better than than Baxter Larman. He explains things for dumb people like me. And he makes it so simple that you fully understand it, and he's a motivator, he motivates people. And so uh I mentioned them to you, you met them, and now all of a sudden they're your brothers, and I've been kicked out the back door. Yeah, but for good reason.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

Well, actually, no, I've known you guys for a long time, yeah, very long time. I knew your background was in fire, knew you were medical, but how I really see you guys is you guys make the best craft cocktails. And at the holidays, you have to be good at something. If I cook, you guys are the first one to clear the dishes. Thank you. And that's how I think of you guys. So then suddenly we became producer partners because you then were not technical advisors. You actually moved into being producers.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

We got elevated.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

You got elevated.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Ba based on time. How much time we spent. It started out, you know, it was one call a month, then it was one call a week, and then it was one call a day, and now it's one call an hour.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

For about four or five years there, I didn't know what they looked like because all I saw was their backs as their washing dishes, and I thought, yeah, I love these guys. Yeah, dog walkers.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

So, all right, so talk about that journey coming from your background. So, talk a little bit about okay, so assistant fire chief, LA County, how many years? What was that experience? You decide time to retire, and then so but talk about your time in the fire.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah. Well, you know what? I I could say, like most 90% of the people that are my age and have done my profession for 36 to 40 years, that they all watched uh emergency as you know, young men and women, and that's why they got into this, and he's heard that his whole life. I did watch emergency, I did enjoy the show, and um, but I don't remember it being my exact inspiration to do this. You know, I mean, it was everybody has different reasons why they do this. I went in the military and became a firefighter there. But when I was able to um work my way into the Los Angeles County Fire Department, of course, then there were the roots of emergency was there. And it was there that I met, probably 20, 25 years ago, I met Randy at an at an event that we did, a project we were involved in. So um, again, I was a paramedic myself, so I knew you know from that side of it, and then I've watched the evolution from my day and age of when I became you know in the early 80s of becoming a firefighter on a department that still through the next 30 years uh goes through this EMS or the fire-based paramedic programs. So I've watched these, you know, across the country. In fact, years ago, maybe 20 years ago, I used to travel with Randy when we'd go do events in different parts of the country when he'd speak about fire-based paramedic programs and and pushing that. And even with our our union brothers and sisters that were that were there to talk about this. So it was like an ongoing. But my career path took me to you know, into the assistant fire chief level when I when I left. And again, so when Randy came to me and I'm ready to retire, I knew I'd have some time on my hands. I was looking for something I really didn't need to work, but it's nice to keep yourself connected, and I thought this would be one way I could give off a little bit of help. Okay, a few hours a week, just a couple hours a week, he said. He promised me that, and I wouldn't have to wash dishes anymore. You know, and really cocktails were involved, but yeah, I probably shouldn't have had more many margaritas when I did. But then I met Baxter and I thought, come on, man, we got to do this together, right? Yes, all right.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

That celebrates your journey.

SPEAKER_02 20:27

So um I've been uh in EMS for 54 years and had multiple different hats that I've worn and been a licensed paramedic in the state of California for 48 years, still a licensed paramedic in the in the state of California. Do you certify every three years? Every two years. Two years? Every two years. Um so I've I've been I wanted to maybe be able to do that to to show that the that EMS is really a profession and that we can be able to hold our own. Um and so it's been a it's been a great ride. Randy and I met uh speaking at some EMS conferences in Utah together, and I'll never forget I uh I invited him to come to one of my lectures. It was on genital injuries. And he's got a history about cringe worthy lecture that was. So they dedicated an entire Yeah, a whole lecture on genital injuries, and I don't know why I'm with a professional, but uh and I'm definitely not a subject matter expert. Can you please elaborate on that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Well, I I can to a certain degree. I was eating a banana at the time, and I looked up at one of his slides and I put this going on.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

But um but but back onto the the good side, that's where Randy and I met. We met at a conference in Utah, and that was a good 20 years ago, and uh been be been become really good friends uh ever since that. And then blessed about 15 years ago that I got to uh see Steve Martin, who is an absolute uh phenomenal individual and and and truly a a leader. It's hard. I mean, second in command of LA County Fire Department is not an easy task for somebody is not an easy place to be. able to to to get to so anybody so I feel I feel blessed and when Randy asked if if I would be interested in being able to to do this uh Steve and I both you know said not a problem at all and then never knew what we were getting ourselves into but but what what an educational ride this has been. You know Steve and I are both um retired but not since we've started this process. That's that's for sure and and learning a learning a lot about it. It's been it's been an incredible journey for us because we went from um basically not that we didn't know what we were doing but truly now knowing and feeling comfortable about what the organization is about. And I think that you know I was brought on primarily because um I might be able to help us be able to find some of the associations and and some of the board members that we were able to bring on that I think that we're really that we're really proud of that we brought we're able to bring into into the unknown.

SPEAKER_03 22:49

Well let's talk about that the the early days obviously we we had to face okay how do we build this how do we do this you know how do we raise the money you know what are the first steps and that was one of the educations for me when you talked about what are the associations you know typically a documentary doesn't bring that in or bring in an advisory board that's like the opposite of what you do and yet you guys really educated me on why that was important. But I do remember you saying you know listen the associations you know it's really hard to get them to come on board and it was actually during COVID when everybody was locked down and we're like okay let's just talk to their board. We were able to do it via Zoom and in about three and a half months how many associations do we have to come on board and endorse us and support us? Yeah I think 19, 18 19?

SPEAKER_02 23:34

We have 19 associations and quickly and these are these are associations that are are not small associations. I mean we have we have and and emergency medical services isn't just pre-hospital care it's really emergency medicine as well how wide that's so it depends on what you see it's really from from the beginning of 911 to even a citizen taking care of somebody stopping uh stopping the bleed or doing citizen CPR is really the beginning and then it ends when the person leaves the emergency department and may go to surgery and then is admitted into the hospital or discharged from the hospital. That element is really emergency medical services. So it starts when they make the call. Right so trauma centers and burn centers and stroke hospitals and all that are really a part of the system itself. So that's why when I said you know when Randy had said early about uh EMS and paramedics paramedics and emergency medicine really all start at the same time. Yeah I mean we've we haven't had trauma centers you know more than about 30 years in this country. I mean it's it's it's it's been a big evolution for us.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

If you were if you were born uh what if you were born before 1970 you lived in a world that didn't really have paramedics.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Well it's not 911 and it wasn't a universal way to call for help you know that was that was the biggest thing. And again that's what happened over time. That's what the show exposed and then for us in our careers where we could get to that. So those people that you mentioned for those organizations though we bro you know we reached out to the people that we knew that we'd worked around and been around and had been started in this industry started a lot of major programs in these industries and when we mentioned him on the advisory board. Yeah and then and they took our calls they were excited they a lot of them knew Randy they'd watched him through the years him and Kevin and listened to them and understood what they what their mission was uh Baxter was very well connected with these people across the country and again from just our time being in this you know in this profession the people we knew and we didn't have any hesitancy for for the the organizations to come on board and then we took the people that a lot of them were in charge of those organizations or worked around them and made those you know asked them to be on our advisory board. And it was just amazing how everybody came on board.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

But like you said I remember one time we who'd we meet that was uh in the industry and they said uh you guys should make a uh a documentary about how you made your documentary because they said they said they go that's your story because I we never seen anything like this you know okay you didn't have any money you went out and got all the organizations the top people in there to back you you had a story but you didn't know where it was going to go and again you didn't have any money okay and there's a pandemic on so and you know when I when when we first started I said you know what's the big deal uh Tanya you just point the cameras and you know let's see what we got and Tanya goes that's not the way it goes well I quickly found out that there's a big difference between a documentary and a uh a theatrical release on a say a written uh uh scripted film big difference and I didn't realize that I also didn't realize just how much work went into this and how much sacrifice that you have to do to make a quality film you don't just stick a camera and and and follow a paramedic around mainly because we're trying to deal with PTSD what what what a paramedic goes through hang on we have a plant we have everybody we we have an airdrop your backyard's on fire anyway um what what was my thought before the war the things were coming about we're talking about PTSD but before we go okay but before you go there you know let's talk a little bit about you know when we go back to how we brought everybody on and how everybody was supportive and and then you know we talk about how do we raise money.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Yeah you know and that's why I think one of the things that was really amazing for me is to see how many people in the industry were willing to step up and support what we were doing. Right. And the biggest one being ATT Firstnet. They were unbelievable because they totally shared the vision of what we were trying to do. We want to tell the story of what they're dealing with right now and really explore that really touch on where pyramidics came from but then also we have Massimo we have Zol they stepped up incredibly supportive and really shared our vision and that is really unusual.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Yeah well we do that there was uh large corporations out there that that have their connection with first responders and ATT Firstnet obviously was one of those they were they were uh giving the federal uh government um mandate to to build out the 911 system in a 5G so we knew they they're connected out there and so when we came to them with with Randy's story of what he wanted to do the vision of what we had the people that we had supporting us they said it was an easy thing for them. So we have some like you said people within the industry and those that are you know associated by the by that and so FirstNet has been huge for us.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Yeah I mean and I've been in the film business a long time and raised money for films and I've never found an organization where really your your missions are aligned and you're really there to do the right thing and to tell the story in a really authentic organic way.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Yeah I one thing would be interesting is put it in a question back to you Tanya and that is because this is relatively new for Steve and I it just seems like we've been it's almost like destiny has happened to us in this picture. That all of these things have lined up and I I started I can't I can't say why that is but is is that the normal that that things seem to flow as well as what we're seeing here and in this documentary?

SPEAKER_03 29:04

I can answer that one no and and but but here's on the flip side is that we've also come up against a lot of obstacles and what I love about especially working with you guys as producer partners is that there isn't a single obstacle that comes in front of us that we don't go together. Like we'll figure this out we'll figure we'll figure this out and we can and we can do it. And we do and that's the th that's what I love. There's like nothing we can't overcome. So yes you're right a lot of things have really come together but I think it's because we're really united in terms of what we want to do.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

I I wonder if that's the background that Steve and I have in emergency medicine. I mean not not like Steve has been Steve's been incident commander on a lot of major major incidents in in his career. So and and that means putting a lot of fires you know in in a lot of different locations with a lot of different stuff.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Incident incident within the incident. But I think it's funny that that we come together and we all seem to be so connected but yet there is a difference between us that's a that's a good balance because obviously you're never going to get three four five people to ever agree on everything at one time. And so you know Baxter's our watchdog he's always the guy that's on the fence saying oh no I I don't I'm not comfortable with that comfortable this isn't gonna work for Steve we get frustrated and then we realize and then we look at each other like thank God we had Baxter to warn us about that one. And so you know you you need that you told yourself he says that a lot I told you so I told you we shouldn't have done that.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

And so what's your role Steve?

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah mine is to go just go. Run the red lights figure out when you get there. Apologize at the end don't ask permission ask forgiveness.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

I'm not even gonna ask where I fit in that mix. Yeah um so let's talk about let's talk about what that was like for you guys given your backgrounds now you're stepping into production and now we're in the early stage of production we're going out and interviewing people we're telling their stories so we had an incredible year. I mean obviously we were going through the pandemic so that delayed us from filming but that gave us a time to really interview people and kind of cast the people we want to highlight. We were so fortunate to get incredible stories we had to cull it down to only a handful. But what was a story that you heard that stayed with you whether or not we ended up going with them as a character what was a story that stayed with you and I'll let you who wants to start first on that one.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

I'll I'll go um it is a story I believe that we we're going with um it was a uh young lady that uh became a paramedic because she as a high school student was uh at Columbine high school with her sister when one of their classmates came with the gun obviously and and killed many of their other classmates. And um to listen to somebody who's who's not just lived through that but then has a perspective of what that did for her in life and what she decided to do. If I remember correctly she went off to school she had a whole different direction she was going but something kept gnawing at her that kept telling her I never wanted to be in this situation again where I felt helpless where I could help anybody and she decided to look around and think what is it that I could do that could be help and who were the first people that would have been there to help these people and it was a paramedic and she changed her life and now she's a um you know career uh paramedic and so is her sister who was there with her and I just thought there's a there's a lot of reason why people do uh get into this profession, you know, and and and again what the things they find out once they're there, you know the the stories come from all different areas. But that one was one of pure inspiration of what brought her into this it stayed with you.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

Yeah yeah that was that um probably a uh a gentleman that I had heard about that we went and interviewed that he was uh he was a person that was trying to find himself for a while um got out of high school went to EMT training um and after emt training he still was trying to figure out what he wanted to do and and went into the uh into the Navy and became a medic in the Navy because he had been an EMT and and and then went to the Middle East and got assigned to a Marine but uh special forces battalion uh as the uh as the medical uh person the medic for assigned to them and um and saw a lot of a lot of stuff and and some stuff that was a little uh traumatic for him both the things that would happen to civilians things that would happen to casualty uh of of of his fellow soldiers and came home um worked for a private ambulance company for a while um knew that he wanted to be a firefighter uh went on and became a a firefighter and um we found his story and we found it really intriguing we always wanted to have a military story I mean Steve and I pushed this really a lot that we felt we felt that that was something that Steve being in the military was very strong about it but I I I knew a lot of people that that have gone into EMS because of the military and so we brought him in and an incredible story. He's a um it's terrible to say he's a man's man he has this this cowboy look to him that's absolutely amazing. But unfortunately when he came back he was still broken but I don't think he really realized that he that he was kind of a broken soul um and found himself an EMS found out uh that reached out for some help and and got that help and I I think you'll find an underlying thread in EMS providers that many of them are attracted to EMS because of some tragedy that they ended up having you know in in their life at some point.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

So actually there was trauma that existed before they came in.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Yeah yes and and and this individual uh we had uh another young lady that was in San Diego that had a near-death experience and then and then got in involved in EMS uh uh uh as well and became a paramedic but there that seems to be a thread that happens in in a lot of these professionals we did we did these interviews together is there one that stuck it stood up for you you know what the one that stood up for me was the one uh and the gentleman was in um uh kind of in a in a kind of a not rural but actually kind of out in the Forest Service oh and and he had a call out into the lake and uh this story stayed with me forever and that was he went down and he was used to water you know rescues and so he went down and and they thought it was a suicide goes to the bottom there's the woman he picks her up not an overly large woman he can't lift her and so he knows he's running out of air he drops her he goes back up he takes another breath he goes back down and can't figure out why he can't lift her they finally manages to kind of lift her up you know with you know they leverage things and they get her up and then they hoist her over in the boat and there's an anchor tied to her ankle and and when he told that story I mean he broke up but it was shocking and that experience because he said he remembers her face about the same age as he was had a young child and yet she made that decision to take her life with such persistence that she died in anger to her late and he said I couldn't pass that lake I couldn't turn the shower on I couldn't be around water for years.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

And that to me was such a revelation now that you both have been in this industry and understand the impact of trauma I didn't completely understand how that worked in that level and that story stayed with me in an incredible way.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Yeah and and you know that's the thing that Baxter and I didn't think of um we were new to this profession so we we needed to learn your language we needed to learn a whole new thing in producing which I is good it's good for me at this age to learn new things. But what I didn't think about until we did some filming was that the people that are filming with us, you know, our camera operators and that what I'm seeing is normal stuff that I've seen for 40 years. And they're seeing some of this for the first time. And some of this trauma hits them and then all of a sudden we looked over at them and we thought oh gosh I think we just traumatized our camera crew. And so now now we turn into the peer counselors and and having to talk to them. And the same type same thing I did on my job I'm not doing for you know the camera folks and Baxter's calling them and and we're checking on them and we're thinking what when you cross professions with something like this a documentary about something that's so real.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

Yeah you just don't I never never saw that coming I didn't see it coming if people would see what I would see I I would just imagine they'd see it through my eyes and react the same but the you know the flip side of that is it is the up which is we have you know a a gentleman that was on our film crew who got excited about what it is that we're that we're really interested in being able to do and what is he now but you know he's in an EMT program to to learn to be an EMT with an ultimate goal that he wants to be a paramedic now all inspired by our film working with us.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

So you know what so at so as the producer you know I just have to say you know what what the heck were you thinking we lost an incredible assistant cameraman.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Wow he's in paramedic school and he was good damn great job Dax wow wow you you just lost producer voice for that one all right I will circle back to Randy to share if if there's a story that stayed with you during the interviews this is from two personal friends of mine that I've known for about 15 years and maybe a little bit more and unfortunately it didn't work out where we could go there and and and film them and that's uh well I'm not gonna tie into the night but but nonetheless two great guys they were they were partners forever they're about as close they're about as close as two human beings I mean they were they were partners for 20 years maybe maybe even longer but the humor of the two but the minute the call comes in the minute that call came in uh comes in they're absolutely professional 100% ages and two more qualified people to be paramedics and and to be paramedics on the streets of New York is tough very tough for that and uh so those two guys major disappointment would that we weren't able to capture that uh but you know one day we may do a sequel to this and if we do they're going to be the top of the list yeah yeah that's kind of what we hope we we'd like to see some of these people again that we've just spoken with that we just weren't able to get into their organizations for whatever reasons it may it may have been that the stories were still very incredible very incredible well you know what this has been this has been incredible and we're gonna keep having this conversation but you know we are up here for fiesta and this is a time to celebrate so I don't know uh oh is that your phone turn their somebody did not turn their phone on the two Rogers point well I know whose phone that is sorry guys I gotta go the the most famous firefighter who's never fought a fire yeah he's an Uber driver on the side he has to go drive should we ask our technical director to also be our our mixologist our mixologist so we can forget where we are a la fiesta so we can have a little cocktail while we go through what we continue to talk about the film.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Crack some confetti eggs on us.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

We're gonna get our cocktails and we will be right back with you. The Into the Unknown podcast is brought to you by Firstnet built with ATT Firstnet is the only network built with and for first responders including paramedics and EMTs. It's designed to fit your evolving communications needs with innovative mission critical solutions so you can keep yourself and your communities safe.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

What are you drinking Randy Randy drinking iced tea that is not iced tea Randolph that's a margarita so you might want to when do you put a lime and salt around the rim of iced tea tried it they'll knock it yeah that's his third one so I'm hoping no this is not iced tea all right yeah what are you drinking Steve you're gonna be fine I decided not to drink alcohol so I've got a course light are they a sponsor by the way you have to name them by names we just lost the sponsor they won't be now I'm drinking ATT iced tea first now and then I'm gonna have a shot of Massimo and I'm gonna have a little bit of Zole medical on the side yeah Zol Jason.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

Oh my god we got we've got product placement here yes tell us that we can't all right so we're back we're here in Fiesta we've been coming up and doing this together for all of us with all the families for hundreds of years a ton of years so it has been all right so I'm gonna ask you okay so Randy I know Fiesta is like one of your favorite holidays it is right after Fourth of July it's it's it it runs in this order Thanksgiving Christmas Fourth of July and Fiesta.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Write that down Matthew about Fiesta obviously I grew up in Santa Barbara and so and and so did I so uh it's it's because it's five days and it is f family oriented until you hit the bars then the families are all at home. Yeah uh um or you go to the rodeo or you or you go to the rodeo we don't want to talk about we don't talk about the rodeo anymore the guys love the rodeo the girls not so much um and it's just everything about it is she's sorry do the guys actually love the rodeo I do okay yeah it's different rodeo is a whole different experience that's a whole different documentary but poor fiesta we've missed it for a couple of years because of COVID. No because Tanya doesn't want to go anymore.

SPEAKER_03 43:02

But well last year they're not the rodeo the fiesta we missed Fiesta yes we did because of the COVID nothing to do with the pandemic.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Please don't put that on the but still but still no parade last year but we still got together.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

That was pretty we had our own parade in the front yard.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

Well and then what what's special this year because we brought a new generation to Fiesta this year.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

That was pretty good I brought my wife the whole new generation I can't wait until she gets out of high school your ex-wife take her excellent places she just graduated so let's all congratulate that's right I have a grandson two years old he's experiencing fiesta for the first time you'd never seen a horse before that's right yeah and uh and boy he got his fill of horses that day.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

Yep and he had the egg with all the little confetti in it and put it all over my head that's now all over my car. Exactly and Randy tried to crack it on his head and almost gave him a concussion.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

And now he's now he's out front mowing Randy's lawn. Uncle Randy, way to go.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

And then we had Cooper that got to join us as well.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

A new puppy. Yeah. Bernadette. You're going to call that horse a puppy. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 44:16

Four and a half months. Yeah, 400 pounds.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

That is not a puppy.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

So it is a family, it is a whole family thing. And you know, as a as a person who um is is new to this group and uh and and also uh doesn't have much of a family um other than my wife's family, um you guys are truly my family. And Steve.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Are are you not coming? Yeah. And next he's gonna say he's not comfortable with this. That's it. His next family.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

I'm not comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Yeah. I'm not comfortable with this. It's it's either phenomenal or I'm not comfortable. It's one or the other, there's no in between.

SPEAKER_03 44:47

Well, obviously, you know, Stephen Bax, you know, I've known you guys for years, and then we went on the road together to do this film.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Oh. And um worst thing worst thing I've ever done. But go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 45:00

Let's go down that's so that that's been an interesting experience that we've had to go through together because we were so so I'm I'm curious. So obviously I've been on the road, I've shot a number of films and documentaries and been in production for many decades. And um how many? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

Define decades. I told you she was she wasn't gonna like that question.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

I did mention that I had a grandson, like, oh, why did I throw myself under myself under the bus? Um, so you know, so obviously I knew what we were going into um in terms of going out on the road and and and having that kind of experience. What was that experience like for you guys?

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Well, it's different for us because what we were doing on the road was going back out to what I did all my career and working with people that are in in um, you know, uh fire departments or pre-hospital care, running red lights and sirens and going to calls where people are injured and dying, whatever it may be. So that was natural for me. It was looking around and knowing that there's a film crew with someone with the lights and a boom and all the stuff behind and all the equipment that we had to protect you know, because just the the sheer cost of it all, the coordination of it all that you guys um all did and finding a role in that coordination. Um it was interesting. Like I said, it's like learning a new job and and learning a new language, and it was all good. So the surprise part for me was on the production side. What about you, Bax?

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Well, yeah, I uh it's weird to have a whole group of new brothers and sisters that you go out on this because it's not a small, you know, th this is not a small production. I was pretty amazed at the size of the of our crew that we would go out with. I I thought what was interesting is maybe you could tell us, Tanya, about your the first one that you went out on, that you and Steve went on. Because first off, it was it wasn't a shift that was a day shift, it was night shifts. So they started at 7 uh PM till 7 a.m. This is in Baton Rouge. And it was it and it was the Baton Rouge. And the temperature in Baton Rouge was just lovely, I remember, when you were when you were there. So I I thought that was that was kind of a an eye-opener for you guys because I remember getting these thousands of texts of I brought the wrong clothes with me.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

Yeah, I pretty much put all my clothes on that was in my suitcase in order to try to because you're right. I didn't buy yours. You know, once I realized that we were gonna be doing night shoots, it's like that's brutal when you have a 4 p.m. call, you're gonna finish at 4 a.m. in the morning. That's that that's tough. But you know, I just want to circle back when you talk about what the difference of going on the road with production people. So I've been on the road with production, I've been in production a long time. You know, you you do you create a bit of a family, you're very connected, you're kind of in the trenches together, absolutely. But I do have to say that this has been a very unusual experience because there is a sense of family and there's a sense of kind of belonging and being part of something greater than themselves. And I've seen that in this crew, and I have never seen that in all the years that I've produced, and I have to say that has to do with the three of you. And that is really incredible because because while we talked a little bit about, you know, our assistant cameraman who now has gone to paramedic school, he experienced it, but that was something he spent time with both of you talking about that. But all of them, you're you're now surfing with like half the crew when we come back. I mean, everybody stays in touch. You know, we're on a group text, and and and people care about each other. If somebody's sick or something has happened, like we reach out. That doesn't happen in this industry, and that is really a testament to what the three of you are bringing.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

I wonder if that's the unique thing about Steve and I, because we had no expectations going in of of what we were supposed to do when we were there.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

And so you know, you know, we we don't know what a producer's role really is, and but we do know what a team role is. Right. And that's what I kind of felt like this was was was kind of a team.

SPEAKER_03 48:57

Well, aren't you guys used to kind of creating a family? Because isn't that what it means, whether you know, when you're in the firehouse, and you you create family. And that's what you guys brought. You guys can create a family.

SPEAKER_01 49:07

So when it came time to to move equipment and do things, we jump in, we'd be part of the crew, and later on the guys would come and say, uh, I've never worked on a production before where the producers actually come and help us lift the equipment and do the stuff you're doing. I'm like, okay, well, that's because we don't know what the producer's supposed to do. So I decided instead of being a curious non-producer, I would jump in and help you lift it. They're all giving us those weird looks like, uh, the union ain't gonna like this. Okay. Union disclaimer. This is not to be used. We may have been in trouble now with the union, Steve. Thanks. Yeah, it's okay. I didn't really lift anything, I just told Tanya to do it. I pointed. That that needs to be moved, Tanya. Oh my, I gotta sort back.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Yeah, but that might as it's that may have been the reason why that we all you know seem to bond a little bit. And and still today, you know, it's it's funny that we all still talk to each other and and our director, you know.

SPEAKER_03 49:59

It's actually pretty incredible that we we talk to each other all the time, and then we still go away on the holidays together.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

So yeah, but yeah, but talking to these, you know, the producers and the the you know the the young kids on the crew and the people that we've you know got to know, you still text them, they're asking you, hey, how's this? How's that? What's going on in your life? I'll meet you over here for call. I mean, it's and we didn't know what we didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 50:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

So for us, this is just standard.

SPEAKER_03 50:21

Well, and and so this is what it was like for me to step into your world because obviously, you know, you were there in the production world, like, okay, how does this all work? And I was doing the same thing. It's like, how does this work in EMS? And I got a rude awakening. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

Well, Tanya and the firehouse, that was an interesting one. She kept saying, when she kept asking the guys, how long have you been on the force? I thought I had to pull her to the side and say, uh, hey, listen, Angie Dickinson, uh, this isn't this isn't policewoman. Forces for law enforcement. Okay, you've been on the department. But she caught on after about 36, right?

SPEAKER_03 50:57

Well, you know, I'm traveling with all men, I'm in firehouses with all men.

SPEAKER_01 51:01

Trying to pick up the lingo. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

And and I'm and Are you bragging now?

SPEAKER_01 51:04

No, no, I'm not.

SPEAKER_03 51:05

Because at the at the end of many, many weeks, I'm like, I need to change my meditation that I need more men in my life. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna change that because that's a that's a lot of chestos and that.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

But we were at one point we had twelve on our crew, and we were in a large firehouse, which was 10. Okay, that's a lot of men.

SPEAKER_03 51:22

That's a lot of men.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Well, and you can hold your own. You can hold your own. You had two brothers, Randy being a brother, is like.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

I I was pretty much worn out of the body. Because I were new though, just saucer and overload.

SPEAKER_02 51:31

Being new as producers, we didn't realize that it was a responsibility in the morning to bring coffee to the uh to our our executive boss producer, um, Ms. Mantu. Well, you didn't realize that coffee in the morning was a responsibility today.

SPEAKER_03 51:46

Two producer partners, only one of them would bring me coffee in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

Yeah, but one would buy you a drink once in a while.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Yeah, yeah, and other things. Well, the one that I didn't know was is that we were supposed to go get snacks for the crew, and I thought, hey, from the firehouse, the chief does not bring snacks to the kids at the firehouse. Okay, that ain't it's supposed to be the other way around. And then they had these expectations of exactly what snacks, and I was like, what in the heck are we doing here? And then I realized I was the only guy that was out of step. This is our job. We buy snacks.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

I I'm like, Steve, you can't just like buy them pizza, you have to ask them what they want. He's like, yeah, that's not gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

You know what it is, Hidelity. Well, we bring them. And they're like, oh no, that's gonna be a union issue.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

That's gonna be I'm like, where the hell did the union come from? Well, and one of the roles that a producer is supposed to have as well is this is kind of the safety officer making sure that everything is all good. Oh, we got that and that one and and the one that I went on with Tanya was in a in a community that was it was kind of a little rough area that we went to, and our our our crew was out filming, and I was staying in the vehicle watching, you know, this equipment because we have this was one of our chase vehicles that had all these cameras that were on the outside that had you know $100,000 worth of you know gear that was there, plus the inside stuff, and then the camera that the guys had was uh well over a hundred thousand dollars as well. And I remember looking up, and this gentleman and his friend are walking right towards me, and I'm seeing them, and then all of a sudden they split apart from each other, and then one reaches behind himself and he's got a golf club, the other guy's got a bat, and I go, What are these? I wonder what game that's gonna be that they're gonna go and play. Tanya, Tanya, please, Tanya, level one, level one, Tanya. So, so there is no radio, by the way. Um, so I I go ahead and I climb back in the vehicle, I lock the doors, I roll everything up, and I'm sitting there going, Okay, how is this gonna work? And so finally they come up to the car itself, and I'm I'm like looking at them and they're split on both sides of the car that they could bash in at any second. So they go, What are you doing here? So I roll the window down slightly. I go, We're shooting a documentary. And he says, Oh yeah, what kind of documentary? And I don't know where this came from, but I said, It's a law enforcement documentary. And the in the vehicle we had was a black, you know, suburban that looked like you know an FBI vehicle or something like that. And the guy went, Oh, oh, oh, really? And I said, and I said, Uh, yeah, and we're in our police vehicle that we use, and we just put some camera gear on it. Little do these guys know that the guys are behind me down in a ravine with about a $200,000 piece of equipment that you know was also available. And the two guys just left because they were afraid that I was gonna radio something in, which I had no radio to call in. Cell phone, cell phone. Yeah, I mean, security, security. So then they walk away. I I I run down to the ravine, I'm going, get up here. They're going, we don't have the shot yet. I said, Yes, you do. Come on. So I didn't get back in the vehicle and back. It wasn't feeling comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

That wasn't shocker.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

You know, feeling a little uncomfortable, Steve.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

That was a just a little uncomfortable here. So that was a that was that was a the mayor, right? In one of his aides. You just shoot away.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Little did I know that there was a golf course right next door.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Anabatic gate.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

But we did have some good looks by the guys when they when they uh when they left in their car around us. But that was yeah. So we we almost died on a shoot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

Well, okay, well, all right. Well, I don't think I have insurance for that. But um s but one of the things that I saw uh were the very first night we were out, and then we were shooting at night. And next thing I know, I'm in a vehicle and we are racing through a city.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

A rough area.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

Rough area in the rain.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Nighttime in the rain?

SPEAKER_03 55:23

Nighttime in the rain. What could go wrong here? And I went, okay, this is this is not what I expected. You know, this was a really This is exactly what I expected. Exactly. I mean, see, I stepped into your world.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:35

And and and when I started to, when we started to actually experience the calls, and and people who and and again, this was this was a tough area. And and we we we faced some tough calls. And and people who didn't make it to the hospital. And while that was totally your world, and so did not I wouldn't say didn't phase you, but it was not unexpected. And it was unexpected for me. And that that was a that was a rude awakening that we are making a film that is going to be incredibly important because you know, people who you know, regular civilians don't really understand what you know what is what is what everyone is experiencing and what they're facing. And you know, and and let's talk let's talk a little bit about that. You know, let's talk about, you know, obviously we knew what we wanted to talk about in terms of the early discussions of you know whether it's workplace violence, you know, it's reduction of forces, all of that, the pandemic, and then we knew we wanted to touch on wellness and mental health and all that. But what's the topic, what's the thread that has come up over and over in this process of what we've been filming?

SPEAKER_01 56:53

Well, it's it's been very obvious since the first persons we we even talked to on on just Zoom interviews before we went out to meet them was the impact that the job has on them personally and on their family and on everything around them, and how do they handle those stresses and strains? Because every individual's different, but yet two people can go on a call and see the same thing, and it impacts each one of them differently. And every single person we ever talked to on the on the uh the first initial interviews talked about that process. And then once we went out there and made it to um to film, then then that became obvious. And like I said, it for us, it was expected, you know, for guys like me and Baxter, we've done this all our careers, but when I saw you and we talk at night and you talk over what you'd seen and what you did, I realized, oh, okay, see, this is why sometimes as professionals we have to look out for those that we work around and um maybe we're in charge of, or maybe they're just partners of yours, because they're experiencing things and just because it didn't affect you, but it can affect them, and then we've seen that through the years. But um, and as Baxter will probably attest to was throughout our careers, the last 30 years, and since emergency, no one ever talked about mental health issues, no one ever went into that. Um, people had problems. In fact, it was actually frowned upon to go back and discuss your feelings as it were. It was bucket up and uh have a little dark humor, and however you handled it when you drove away from work is how you handled it. Well, we found out through the years that um people, some people didn't handle it well, you know, and whether they you know went down a certain path of of escaping or whether they took it out in anger and violence, I mean it it came to a head in the last 30 years, and we realized instead of treating it at the end when we'd see, you know, the the the final outcome that someone might have, that we had to go back and recognize the signs early on of those that didn't want to raise their hand. And that's the really good thing about this profession is we are very proud of where we're going with that. We are most certainly don't have our arms around it yet, but there is the the movement is within peer counseling and doing that. And didn't and you had an experience. I think I remember it right where you where we went to um uh visit one of our our subject matter experts.

SPEAKER_03 59:06

Yeah, we did, yeah, absolutely. And Kellogg. In Kellogg, right, in Oregon. The Los Angeles County Fire Museum celebrates the history of the American Fire Service and the contributions made to that history by the Los Angeles County Fire Department. One of the Los Angeles County Fire Museum's goals is to document and present the evolution, history, and impact of fire-based emergency medical services. What I'd love to know is when do you think the industry really started to see the impact? Like I know you've talked a number of times of you come back from a tough call and you know, and it's and the guys are all okay and but you insist that they talk with people. You know, talk a little bit about that, and then Bax, I want you to talk a little bit about kind of when you felt like the industry as a whole really felt um compelled to put things in place to support. And I agree, you know, it's like it's an it's it's evolving and it's becoming to the forefront. So talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Well, just this kind of job, and I think uh Baxter you can understand, um, this job uh uh pushes out the bravado, pushes out the the macho, and whether it's male or female, it it doesn't matter. But it's it's always been a position of you see things that most people don't see, so you must be able to handle it better than most people can see it. And so people have done these, have have, like I said, compartmentalized these things, and it was just frowned upon to talk about. In fact, if if you you know if you brought something up. So what we learned early on is if you walk into the room after a very traumatic call and ask everybody if they're okay, everybody says they're okay. No one's gonna stick their hand up and say they're not okay. What we started learning was male or female. Uh uh, yeah, it didn't matter who it was. Age on the job didn't matter. The young guys look to the old folks and they say, Okay, he's okay, I must be okay. And so that that that didn't help, you know, but we realized then that there were still issues. So the way we started learning was just to talk to each other and start recognizing things in each other. And the smart thing that I learned once I was in a position to to uh to be in charge and make it my call was just to pull the trigger on something, make it happen. And the first time I ever did that, I can still remember I was working in one of the toughest places in LA County, and I had the toughest uh folks around me, and I asked everybody are they okay, and they were all just fine. And um, I just decided on my own, I got a little worried, I thought this is a very, very traumatic call that I know that's the type that you know people that that the folks on the job will have universally told us that anything involving infants and children, you know, always hits them the hardest. So I decided to pull the trigger on peer counseling, and I was shocked at what happened in that room once the professionals and even our peer counselors came in and started talking to people. And once the tears started flowing, I realized, oh my goodness. So I went out and then put together a program for young uh, you know, uh people in my position as young chiefs that says, quit asking for, you know, for permission or asking if anything's wrong. Just do it, and then it things will happen. And if you can help them that way. But Baxter, you've you've seen this whole peer counseling and and stuff develop like the last what 20, 25 years, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:13

Yeah, it's funny. I I think that that we we didn't learn all our lessons. You know, I mean when we had these group of people that came back after World War II, and then we had Korea, and then we had Vietnam that were pretty disturbed about some of the things that they had seen. You know, we didn't realize the fact that the same thing was happening in EMS. I it's just that it was happening on a daily basis. And they would run one call, then they'd run another call, then they'd run another call, and not realize the fact that these things all ca catch up to each other.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:44

So it's a cumulative.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

Yeah, and in fact it was it was funny. One of our if you remember one of our stories, i it was wonderful that that um she had said that she went to uh to a counselor to to get some counseling support, and she said that she traumatized the counselor when she left, and she felt really more the counselor was crying, was sobbing at the end of the session. Yeah, that it that that that's that that kind of tells you a little bit about what what we end up seeing. And and and some of these things we we take home with us. Um and we have some of the highest alcohol problems. We definitely have uh some problems with with abuse problems of of uh of of neighbors and spousal and uh and and substance and every other type of abuse that can happen. And I I think over the last 20 years has that really been recognized. You know, I I I think that suicide in in EMS uh and in fire service and in law enforcement of first responders is is outrageously high. And I think that it it's now being recognized that it's a problem. And we're now, you know, as as Steve says, developing support groups, um, recognizing that we have these problems is is is the first sign for us to make be able to make these changes. And and the federal government federal government's involved in it now too.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:02

And I think people recognize that in terms of law enforcement, but I don't think people recognize that for paramedics because it circles back to what do paramedics do? And in that profession, it's like sometimes they're just seen as ambulance drivers, and that's part of what the film is about. It's like that is not the case. And so if you don't understand why they're experiencing such extreme trauma, you have to understand what it is they actually do.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

On a daily basis. And that's the difference. But it's the cumulative effect that you have. Um the other problem that we have is is there's some sleep deprivation problems as well. We have some of our crews that are working, you know, 24 and now the end thing is is 48 hours, 72 hour shifts where they will be working continuously. And and in many of those cases, there's sleep deprivation problems, and that causes stress. You know, there's it's not the easiest place to eat sometimes uh as well when you're on calls. So they're they're sometimes not eating the best in the nutrition that they have and the fluid intake that they have, and all of that causes uh problems for them as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

Yeah, and and you know, one of the uh the other things when we talked earlier in the podcast about this this family, or where does it start? It starts with uh you know with the person that calls 911, but dispatchers, I think it's just been the last five to ten years that even anybody figured out how much pressure is the person under, how much stress is it to take the call of someone having a catastrophic event happening in full in front of them. And then we have these issues with dispatchers. Again, a lot of times they'll stay on the line, they'll talk someone through CPR, they've heard they hear shots in the background, they're talking to somebody that they learned later didn't make it. I mean, they have a lot of you don't have to be at the scene and see blood to be stressed in this industry. And and so now that we recognize that, because again they have high incidence of PTSD, they have high incidence of suicide, and r retention for the job is tough too.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:54

So and so one of the dispatchers we interviewed said how long what was the longest time they were on the call. She said 45 minutes I was giving verbal CPR.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:04

Yeah. Like I said, you don't have to be out there with hand hand boots on the ground to be traumatized in this.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:09

And they don't always know what happens to them.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:10

No. So now they're less than unknown.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:13

But what a lot of people don't realize is either do the EMS people. They have no idea what the follow-up is of that patient.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

So you don't get a closure.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

You don't get closure.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:26

Patient privacy laws that have changed what we used to be able to find out if what we did worked or didn't work or what we could do better. We'd have tape review of the patients that we did and saw and what we did, and it was a learning experience. That all really got cut out with patient privacy, and so that's actually kind of set us back a little bit on some of these closures, like you said.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:45

From a personal standpoint. Yeah. I could mention the very first ride-along I ever went on was with, well, we're not giving out names here, but the very first rescue I ever went out on, uh, I didn't know what to expect. I'm just a young actor. I had minimal training as a paramedic, minimal training as a firefighter. But here I am, red light and siren with my helmet on, sandwiched between two incredible paramedics, and I'm like, yeah, this is this is great, this is great. We roll up. First thing I see is this 11, 12-year-old little boy who had been knocked off his bike and run over by the two back wheels of one of those moving trucks, those big white boxy things, ran over his torso, his his his uh abdomen and and his hips, and his his pelvis. And uh uh first off, that that struck me dumb because I had never seen anything like that before. And I and I knew intellectually what this was like to go to this, to to to see something like this, but emotionally it caught me totally off guard. And I remember distinctly the captain and all these firefighters were kind of bent over the little kid. The kid was scared to death. He was kind of gasping for air, and uh, and he said, uh he kept looking up to the firefighters and he said uh to whoever he was talking to, because I was kind of looking over everybody else's shoulders and he said, uh, little boy said, Am I gonna die? And uh the cat said, uh, no, buddy, you're not gonna die. Not on my watch, no. You know, I don't know whether this little boy survived those injuries or not. All I know is that verbal placebo made that little boy feel better. I wish he would have said something to me because I wasn't feeling good at all. I mean, the phrase, you can't unsee what you've seen, that never left me. And I came home that night and I went, I'm never gonna go on another one of these rides again. And then I was talked down by, you know, the two two paramedics that uh that I was with, and and they explained, you know, to me what what was really happening. But that was my very first ride-along. Now, mind you, I didn't I don't think all my other ride-alongs had anything quite that serious, but that affected me. I'm telling this story 50 years later. That's how long that stuck with me. And if if we can if we can show the impact of what this is happening, what's happening to paramedics and EMTs and firefighters, if we can show this to our audience and and get them to understand, uh uh, this is something that's never been caught on film before. Because we're not doing a right-along. I mean, we'll we'll see them in action. This is not your normal paramedic uh documentary uh uh uh film. This is going to be about what it in in my in my mind, what it takes to be a firefighter, what it takes to stay a firefighter.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

Paramedic.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:55

Uh uh sorry, sorry, paramedic. What what it takes to be a paramedic, what it takes to stay a paramedic, and what it takes to uh and what it takes uh uh to remain a paramedic and still the you know the the sacrifice that that they make, I don't think the general public knows. They take paramedics for for granted now. They expect 911, the paramedics are gonna be there and they're gonna save their lives. You know, that's not how it works.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:24

So well Tanya, one of the important things that we need to talk about too is it it's not just a matter of of showing that there's um the these issues out there. It's showing the positive side of what we've done and the strides we've made in the last 20 years to recognize things, provide assistance to the firefighters and their families and their children, whoever may be involved. And so that's the positive side of of helping these people in this industry. Like I think you just said earlier for something recognition is the is the first thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:55

Well, and and as you you mentioned before, like we ended up in Oregon talking with Ann Kellogg. Yeah, you know, who runs this incredible equine therapy ranch. You know, not just equine, but you know, she has cows, she has all sorts of but the the therapies that they bring are so unique, so unusual, and that is something that I think is such a f at the forefront of helping the the paramedics and helping first responders be able to deal with that and to be able to utilize and have that experience. And and I've I've seen so many films on you know equestrian therapy and working through that, but I've never seen anything quite like it because it was so unusual because it's not about riding the horse, which it usually is, but it's really about allowing the horse to be in that environment and letting that horse then almost play out what it is you're feeling, which is really uh fascinating to experience. And I got a chance to experience it, I got a chance to be in that environment where I was in the middle of a ring and that and I went off to the side and that horse came up and looked me in the eye. It was such an incredible experience. And until you go through it, and we saw a number of men, actually, you guys weren't with me on that trip. I was there by myself, but to see a number of people go through that process, and the fa fascinating thing about uh, you know, horses is that they have such a connection, a human a connection, emotional connection uh with individuals, and and they're able to really uh you know, like literally change your central nervous system.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:32

And and so you're absolutely right. It's like those are the things that need to happen because the people who are in this industry are so unique and so special. And one of my favorite quotes, and I know you guys have heard me say this a million times, so no, it's by Hemingway, and it's the world breaks everyone, but afterwards some are br some are stronger and the broken places. And to me, uh that is the epitome of what these men and women are all about, because this is a tough profession, and yet, and and it has taken its toll, and yet they come back and they feel, and we heard it over and over, they feel stronger, they feel more compassionate, they feel more compelled, they feel driven to be there on the worst day for the people who call 911. And that is incredible, and and it is so inspiring. And how many times have they said I would do this profession for free? I wouldn't do anything else. They're doing something greater than themselves, and something that really inspires and like they wouldn't do anything else. We you know, we talked about the the young woman from Columbine. She's like, every time I help somebody, I heal. And that is that's incredible. You know, those are special people. So we want to talk about, okay, they're heroes, like that's a very that's a very trivial, you know, it's so easy to say. They truly are, because this profession is tough, but they're bigger and they're greater than you know, and stronger than many.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:19

I mean, these people are truly healthcare professionals, and and that's what we need to give them. They're not technicians, they're not ambulance drivers. And and to recognize that most of these people really enjoy what it is that they're doing. Um, many of these teeth people may end up being slightly broken and you know, and get fixed and come back and and are better people be because of that. Um, but it it's it's just as you said, Tanya, it it's a it's an incredible um honor to be with somebody at their worst possible moment and to be able to make a difference for them. And you know, uh one of the things that I I received out of this relationship that I've had with Randy over all of these years, and I think Steve would agree to me, how many times we're with Randy and somebody has said to Randy, you know, I got in this business because of you. And the same thing with Kevin, I got in this business because of you. And I will tell you that even me, I I'm Randy helped to influence me in getting involved in this business. And I think that was what Randy and Kevin wanted to do with this movie, is they wanted to inspire the next generation because the current generation doesn't know who you know Johnny and Roy are, you know, and you know, and and maybe they're they they are influenced by Johnny and Roy, but they're influenced by Johnny and Roy. Don't take this wrong, Randy, but by their parents or their grandparents that influenced them in getting involved in EMS. And that's what I I feel that um that this movie can be able to do is to honor um Johnny and Roy, uh Randy and Kevin, in inspiring that next generation of EMS professionals.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:04

God, that's my dream. That's uh to to inspire somebody else to step up and and and do and do what they saw for seven years on that show, but continue it. You know, it's 45 plus years old. Right. Let it go. Now let's look at the future. That's what I want this film to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:22

Well, and the and the film probably is is very timely because you have a next generation here that's coming in as leaders, and really what drives them is a sense of purpose in life.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:33

Like they're not getting in the corporate world and they're not working towards that watch. They want to have meaning and a purpose of life. Right. And that is what game. And that's what we will show in this film because we will show the tough parts. But you know what? And not everybody's for this industry, but those that are, people that want that sense of purpose and mission-driven and want to do something for humanity.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:57

Well, and bring them in for the right reasons. For the thing, it's not it's not a hero-worshipping you know job. No, there you you, you know, more people live despite you than became because of you in this in this industry that I try to tell people. Yeah, and and I think that what we don't need to do is we don't need to spend a lot of time and energy into somebody and then they leave the business. Right. You know, because it's not what they expected it to be able to be. Exactly. And that's and that's the other thing that this film is going to be able to do. And and to inspire other there, you know, it's amazing how many people in that emercy medical services world, nurses and physicians, that really also don't have any idea what EMS does. And I think that that's the other thing that we have as a goal in this, is to be able to let not only the lay people, not to inspire a new workforce, but to let people understand that are outside of our world what it is that it's really like.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:47

And I mean, I'm sure like the the nurses can can relate to this because again, you have a lot more losses than you do wins. But the wins mean so much more. It's how do you compartmentalize and keep those losses from piling up and as we say, tipping you over or burning you out was a a term used forever. But if you can balance that in your life and take those wins and go positive about those wins and and and take those out there and understand the ripple effect you can have in people's lives based upon a save here and there. We've how many have we interviewed where we talked about the that one win they had? And they give some sad stories, but they give some incredible stories.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:23

And that's what drives them.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:24

Yeah, of what what what brings them back, how it felt to go back. Like um, Randy, we've talked about the gentleman that you that you had in in New York, and they do the uh annually, they do a a uh dinner where they bring back the people that they've saved through the year. That this is the most meaningful thing that anybody in this job can do is to have someone come into your work area and say, I I don't know if you remember me, but you know, five years ago I was the little guy at the bottom of the pool you pulled off. You might remember that. I've seen those stories. I mean, that one there is the ones that really inspires people to keep going, to understand, like you said, it has nothing to do with being a hero. You have a job to do, you're trained, you have tools to do, and you have responsibility. But if you can take those losses and understand and learn from them, don't let them mute you up, but take those wins to inspire you. That's where I think we get that next generation to come in because they're looking for something like that. There's so many people out there with compassion that want to find a job to do. We've learned, you probably met more than I have, Bexa, that have left whole different careers, like we just saw, to jump into this. Jake for Jake.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:26

Our crew guy, you know, the guy's been on major motion pictures, like he has been. We were so fortunate to have him, and he's like after seeing this, yeah. Yeah, you know, been on eight, you know, huge films. And he left because he wanted to make a difference in the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:42

And he saw the real stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

30 years old, and he's starting from the ground up and he couldn't be any happier.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:47

You know, back to uh uh um I I once asked uh my paramedic friend from New York, I said, you know, how how do you deal with the losses that you have to endure, that you have to experience? And he stopped for a moment, he looked up and he went, I just think about the wins. About saving somebody's life that probably wouldn't be alive if he weren't there. So he doesn't dwell on on the other. Not everybody can do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:16

That's that's like a professional athlete. Your team's gonna lose probably more than it wins, but you're gonna remember the wins. Yeah, you can't do it. You can take something away from the losses. You can't let them, you know. But again, there are times when some things are tougher than others and it hits you at a different time of your life or whatever it may be. The best thing we're doing now is we're recognizing how to reach out to these people and help them along the way. Because with no help, it we were doing a disservice to all the to all of our employees and and all of our partners and all of our friends. And so I I'm excited about this time of our career because of how we are working towards helping those people so that they can continue in this job and have those wins and take those back and inspire the next generation.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:55

So and we've heard that in every single city is that that is number one priority for them is for them to keep everybody healthy and keep and keep all of those issues and their experiences in a really keep the workforce from absolutely from from leaving and inspire more. Well, you know what? First of all, I have to say, you know, it's always we could just talk forever. And I have to say, as you said, you feel blessed. I feel blessed to be part of this team to be doing this, you know, to be brought in to have this experience and to be able to share this.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:27

And if I could just add this uh my whole goal in the very beginning, and it's not been an easy goal for me, was to put together the best team I knew how and then get the hell out of the way. And you guys have just picked it up. And they weren't available, so back to we filled in this. Steve and I jumped in, and those people had the real jobs. And you guys have more than made it a reality. Yeah. You're making me look good.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:51

Me and Kevin look good. Never next time, don't answer any calls anything. R Mantu. Brandy Mantu. That's right. Never heard of them. You know, there is a block on those calls. Yeah, I want to thank you. Nah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:03

All right, well, we're gonna stay here. We're excited. You know, we're gonna share our next podcast. But next time we're gonna bring Kevin back. So Kevin Ty's gonna come back. We're gonna continue the conversation about Into the Unknown. And we're excited to have you join us on this journey. Even lucky, yes.